Politiks

Ulyanov · Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:03 pm Abortion

I'm in the roughly 1% of the population that is actually undecided on abortion, everyone else seems to have strong, unswayable views on it. I used to be pro-choice until around 8th grade, but then I saw a pro-choice poster that said something like "77% of anti-abortion leaders are men, 100% of them will never become pregnant." Since 100% of pro-abortion leaders are at 0% risk of being aborted, it seemed somewhat hypocritical, and I ended up deciding that a lot of people on both sides don't really consider the other point of view. So now I'm in the middle, though I lean a little pro-life.

Ekaf · Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:34 pm

I'm pro-choice though not really strongly, I just don't think it's my place to decide.

siouxper · Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:52 pm

I dislike it. Go ahead and have one if you were assaulted or something bad like that, but if it is from a fault of your own, too bad so sad.

Maximus Vigilus · Wed May 02, 2007 3:53 am

I am Pro-Choice however I strongly disagree with abortion.

I fully understand both sides of the arguement. Alot of people say well what if a rape victim is impregnated? Or some other excuse for getting an abortion, yet why should the unborn child be punished for something it is not responsible for.

XRichX · Wed May 02, 2007 2:31 pm

i disagree with abortion only on certain circumastances, i mean, rape... if the victim didnt want the child as she just couldnt bare to bring someone into the world that way then that should be ok, but just because they werent careful enough then thats their fault and if they really can't deal with a child then a family that really want a baby should be able to have a chance.

agentkgb · Wed May 02, 2007 7:51 pm

Maximus Vigilus wrote: I am Pro-Choice however I strongly disagree with abortion.

I fully understand both sides of the arguement. Alot of people say well what if a rape victim is impregnated? Or some other excuse for getting an abortion, yet why should the unborn child be punished for something it is not responsible for.
That gets to me too, the fact that it was conceived by rape doesn't make the life worth less. I'm undecided I guess.

Dark Blaze · Sun May 06, 2007 11:56 pm

If you get raped, get an abortion. If you're not able to handle the responsibility of a child, get an abortion.

However, if you're having sex just to pass time, and are able to handle the responsibility, no abortion.

Matt · Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 am

Against it unless the mother's life is in danger. If you can't raise a child, deal with it for nine months and then give it up for adoption.

Houndstooth · Mon May 07, 2007 12:49 am

I'm surprised to find so many pro-life leaners in one place. I got cussed out by a small girl the other day for having a "Choose life" tag on my car. That my parents put there without asking...

Anyway, I'm pro-life, anti-abortion, whatever. I don't believe pro-choice is an accurate term; it seems to me that somewhere along the line someone wanted to get rid of an unborn baby but couldn't call themselves murderers so they deemed it "choice". 99% of life is choice.

I'm sure everybody has heard this before, but why is it that when a woman kills the baby inside her it's call abortion, but when someone kills the pregnant woman, we call it double-murder?

Abortion is a sick practice regardless of circumstance. It may be acceptable given a mother's inability to survive birth or if the child is a product of incest-rape. However, the average pro-choicer is neither a victim of rape nor of incest.

Self-control is the only cure for this situation, and self-control is exactly what is preached against in our society. Party like a rockstar...

Roy's Our Boy · Mon May 07, 2007 2:59 am

Does anyone know the percentage of raped women who become pregnant? Due to emotional and physical reasons, it is less likely for a woman to conceive after being forced. Also, many rapists either "pull out" and do not ejaculate inside the woman, or do not even have time to get that far.

Anyone hear of the Morning-After Pill?

Alright, so this poor victim of rape, does conceive, and did not have access to the Pill. Is killing the child truly an answer to her troubles? Why punish the wrong party?

There is also a wonderful concept for unwanted children; I believe it is called adoption. Sounds like abortion, I know, except no one dies.

Someone once told me of a child that had an 85% chance of dying upon birth and a 90% chance of killing the mother. If he survived the ordeal, he would almost certainly be born retarded and die within the next couple of years.

He is now 17 and is a perfectly normal student at my school.

Abstinence is the answer to all others.

Bob Frankenberry · Mon May 07, 2007 3:16 am

I believe there are certain instances where it is more appropriate than others.

I am pro-abortion, with terms.

LeilaniSurferGirl · Fri May 18, 2007 12:32 am

Abortion is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You've probably heard this example before.

If Beethoven's mother could've aborted him, some say she had every right to. She had an STD, and her child was going to be deaf (and mute, too, right? If i'm wrong, plz tell me.) and deformities and all this other stuff. If she had aborted him, we wouldn't have a lot of great classical music that we have.

Then there's the guilt. There's a lady in my church. She had 3 abortions. The guilt almost caused her to commit suicide. SUICIDE. You kill your child, hey! let me kill myself while I'm at it! I mean, that's just not right. There's a reason there's guilt: YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO IT.

Now, the date rape/rape: Rape itself is wrong. I feel sorry for any females that have been raped and become pregnant. It's hard I know. God did not allow pain and sin. Sin was a choice, and with it came pain. Maybe the girl was innocent, but God may have huge plans for her life through her baby, or plans for her baby.

And then the deformities of the baby/death of baby/mother: I had a teacher whose mother was told that her babies would be deformed/die and she was told she would die. She had 4 healthy babies that are now in their mid 30s/40s and have healthy children of their own. So you never know. Plus, the world has this mentality that disabled kids are problems. There really blessings. Absolute blessings.

And then sometimes people choose to have a physical relationship. And then the girl conceives. That's not an excuse to have an abortion! And it's not an excuse for the father to leave her to raise the child herself.

But if I can't dissuade you from abortion, at least put the child up for adoption!!! There are thousands of couples that can not have a child, and would love to adopt one.

But abortion is wrong. I have a friend who could've been aborted, but her mother chose to have her, and eventually, her parents got married. Because of her, her father decided to come back to her mother. He decided to surrender to God. You never know what your 'unwanted' child may do. He/she may be a blessing in disguise.

Bob Frankenberry · Fri May 18, 2007 1:00 am

LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: Abortion is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You've probably heard this example before.

If Beethoven's mother could've aborted him, some say she had every right to. She had an STD, and her child was going to be deaf (and mute, too, right? If i'm wrong, plz tell me.) and deformities and all this other stuff. If she had aborted him, we wouldn't have a lot of great classical music that we have.

So we wouldn't have his music. He wouldn't have suffered all his life with syphilis. I think I could handle not having the Fur Elise, provided that someone wasn't suffering.

Quote: Then there's the guilt. There's a lady in my church. She had 3 abortions. The guilt almost caused her to commit suicide. SUICIDE. You kill your child, hey! let me kill myself while I'm at it! I mean, that's just not right. There's a reason there's guilt: YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO IT.

There are mothers who have their children who still want to kill themselves, and the child.

Quote: Now, the date rape/rape: Rape itself is wrong. I feel sorry for any females that have been raped and become pregnant. It's hard I know. God did not allow pain and sin. Sin was a choice, and with it came pain. Maybe the girl was innocent, but God may have huge plans for her life through her baby, or plans for her baby.

God allowed Sin by allowing the choice to exist.

Quote: And then the deformities of the baby/death of baby/mother: I had a teacher whose mother was told that her babies would be deformed/die and she was told she would die. She had 4 healthy babies that are now in their mid 30s/40s and have healthy children of their own. So you never know. Plus, the world has this mentality that disabled kids are problems. There really blessings. Absolute blessings.

Yes, yes, we've all heard the story of the woman who was told her baby would have Problem XYZ, and she said "No, God, etc." and the baby was fine. "You never know."

But there's also a lot of instances where the mother could have been saved a lot of grief had she aborted, and not been forced to witness her stillborn child, or her child only live for a few hours.

Quote: And then sometimes people choose to have a physical relationship. And then the girl conceives. That's not an excuse to have an abortion! And it's not an excuse for the father to leave her to raise the child herself.

But if I can't dissuade you from abortion, at least put the child up for adoption!!! There are thousands of couples that can not have a child, and would love to adopt one.

Okay, I think that's fair. But I don't really hear of a lot of abortions "just because".

Quote: But abortion is wrong. I have a friend who could've been aborted, but her mother chose to have her, and eventually, her parents got married. Because of her, her father decided to come back to her mother. He decided to surrender to God. You never know what your 'unwanted' child may do. He/she may be a blessing in disguise.

Okay. There's this "logic" in Science Fiction movies that suggests that if you remove something from the past, then all the things change accordingly in the present. It's like that movie It's a Wonderful Life. James' Stewart's character wished he had never been born, and was granted that.

The result was that he had never existed. There was no missing him or anything, anything that he did, simply didn't happen.

Which is what would happen with Beethoven, or your friend. There would be no "We wouldn't have them." They simply wouldn't be. No missing, because there would be nothing to miss.

NightSnake · Sat May 19, 2007 2:45 am

LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: Abortion is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You've probably heard this example before.

If Beethoven's mother could've aborted him, some say she had every right to. She had an STD, and her child was going to be deaf (and mute, too, right? If i'm wrong, plz tell me.) and deformities and all this other stuff. If she had aborted him, we wouldn't have a lot of great classical music that we have.
I don't have real strong opinions on abortion either way (pro-choice), but that's a bad example imo. What if Hitler's mother had aborted him?

Roy's Our Boy · Sat May 19, 2007 2:53 am

Bob Frankenberry wrote: But there's also a lot of instances where the mother could have been saved a lot of grief had she aborted, and not been forced to witness her stillborn child, or her child only live for a few hours.

Far better to pretend?

Bob Frankenberry · Sat May 19, 2007 3:11 am

Roy's Our Boy wrote: Bob Frankenberry wrote: But there's also a lot of instances where the mother could have been saved a lot of grief had she aborted, and not been forced to witness her stillborn child, or her child only live for a few hours.

Far better to pretend?

Pretend what?

Roy's Our Boy · Sat May 19, 2007 3:22 am

That it never happened? That as they put the woman to sleep or whatever procedure is used, they are not actually carving up and ripping out the child? That as long as the woman has her eyes closed, any method to remove the child is better than letting it have the few moments on Earth he/she deserves?

Who among you would rather have your family and friends die alone, then to be at their side during their last day?

Bob Frankenberry · Sat May 19, 2007 3:34 am

Roy's Our Boy wrote: That it never happened? That as they put the woman to sleep or whatever procedure is used, they are not actually carving up and ripping out the child? That as long as the woman has her eyes closed, any method to remove the child is better than letting it have the few moments on Earth he/she deserves?

Who among you would rather have your family and friends die alone, then to be at their side during their last day?

My implications were more than the woman might go through a depression bought at the sight of seeing her child die just moments after it was born, or be delivered and be stillborn. I've heard these things can be traumatic for a woman--and, for some, lessen the idea that they'll abort a future child [Because, obviously, they want a child. They aren't going to risk losing another one.].

Of course, it's entirely likely that the child would have been miscarried far before this--which is bad enough.

Also, as I've said in other forums, I'm not in favor of abortion past the second trimester. If they can determine anything in the second, then I'm okay with it. But once it's third, I would just rather it be carried to term.

And it would depend entirely on the family member, for me.

Roy's Our Boy · Sat May 19, 2007 3:43 am

I know several mothers whose children have died.

Stillborn and several moments after birth.

Would abortion have really changed their life at all?

Bob Frankenberry · Sat May 19, 2007 3:55 am

Roy's Our Boy wrote: I know several mothers whose children have died.

Stillborn and several moments after birth.

Would abortion have really changed their life at all?

Who's to say? It's possible, of course, it's also possible that it wouldn't.

We're delving to far into "what if"s, now, I think.

You know my stance, and I'm not really willing to reprint an entire debate onto this forum just for the sake of record.