Politiks

LeilaniSurferGirl · Sat May 12, 2007 1:36 pm God is real

Well, I was looking at the old forum where you were having WizardsFan07 prove God is real. I've taken some of your quotes, and put my answers to them. Please feel free to ask me questions. I may not be able to answer them, but I will try my very best.

Quote: But how can you know that? Science refutes many things the Bible says, and science is true

Although the Bible is not a scientific text, whenever it speakes of scientific matters, it speaks truly and accurately.

Many modern discoveries were revealed by Scripture thousands of years ago. The Bible talks about the heavens, climate, and weather; the atoms that make up the universe; reveals truth about earth's structure, chemical and biochemical processes, the ocean, plants, and animals, the composition and characteristics of the human body, and diseases.

God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing. (Job 26:7, NLT)

He draws up the water vapor and then distills it into rain. The rain pours down from the clouds, and everyone benefits from it. (Job 36:27-28, NLT)

It is the Lord who created the stars, the Pleiades and Orion. It is he who turns darkness into morning and day into night. It is he who draws up water from the oceans and pours it down as rain on the land. The Lord is his name! (Amos 5:8, NLT)

Look up to the skies above, and gaze down on the earth beneath. For the skies will disappear like smoke, and the earth will wear out like a piece of clothing. The people of the earth will die like flies, but my salvation lasts forever. My righteous rule will never end! (Isaiah 51:6, NLT)

for the life of any creature is in its blood. I have given you the blood so you can make atonement for your sins. It is the blood, representing life, that brings you atonement. (Leviticus 17:11, NLT)

By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen. (Hebrews 11:3, NLT)

"God is so great-higher than the heavens, higher than the farthest stars. (Job 22:12, NLT)

The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. (Ecclesiastes 1:6, KJV)

And the Lord God formed a man's body from the dust of the ground and breathed into it the breath of life. And the man became a living person. (Genesis 2:7, NLT)

For he understands how weak we are; he knows we are only dust. (Psalm 103:14, NLT).

These are just a few points that prove that the Bible is scientifically accurate. It proves that the Earth is a sphere suspended in space, the water cycle keeps the land watered, the universe is running down, blood sustains life, the universe is made of invisible things, the stars are incredibly distant from the earth and cannot be numbered, the winds form a circulating system, and man's body is composed of the same materials as the earth.

Ulyanov · Sat May 12, 2007 1:47 pm Re: U

I wasn't on agentkgb's old forum, but I'll respond to some of this.
LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: Although the Bible is not a scientific text, whenever it speakes of scientific matters, it speaks truly and accurately.

Many modern discoveries were revealed by Scripture thousands of years ago. The Bible talks about the heavens, climate, and weather; the atoms that make up the universe; reveals truth about earth's structure, chemical and biochemical processes, the ocean, plants, and animals, the composition and characteristics of the human body, and diseases.
If there are any quotes in the bible about atoms, I'd like to see them.

Quote: God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing. (Job 26:7, NLT)
It's not really "hung on nothing" though, that idea would more support geocentricism, but really the earth is "hung" on the sun.

Quote: He draws up the water vapor and then distills it into rain. The rain pours down from the clouds, and everyone benefits from it. (Job 36:27-28, NLT)
He doesn't cause evaporation, it's a process explained by science.

Quote: It is he who turns darkness into morning and day into night.
He certainly is not, the earth just rotates.

Quote: By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen. (Hebrews 11:3, NLT)

"God is so great-higher than the heavens, higher than the farthest stars. (Job 22:12, NLT)

The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. (Ecclesiastes 1:6, KJV)

And the Lord God formed a man's body from the dust of the ground and breathed into it the breath of life. And the man became a living person. (Genesis 2:7, NLT)

For he understands how weak we are; he knows we are only dust. (Psalm 103:14, NLT).
I do not see how this is scientific.

Quote: These are just a few points that prove that the Bible is scientifically accurate. It proves that the Earth is a sphere suspended in space, the water cycle keeps the land watered, the universe is running down, blood sustains life, the universe is made of invisible things, the stars are incredibly distant from the earth and cannot be numbered, the winds form a circulating system, and man's body is composed of the same materials as the earth.
I'm not sure what you mean exactly by the part I put in bold, but besides, the bible is quite wrong, as proven by science about a number of things. There is far more evidence to support evolution than creation, for instance. Further, there is no reason to believe the bible is true, it's just a book, no superior to any other religious text.

And welcome to the forum, btw.

Roy's Our Boy · Sat May 12, 2007 3:04 pm Re: U

Ulyanov wrote: It's not really "hung on nothing" though, that idea would more support geocentricism, but really the earth is "hung" on the sun.

"Hung on nothing" meaning it is in space.

Then the rest of what you say is "Science > God because I said so. If science explains these things then God does not exist."

The entire point of posting those quotes was to show that even several thousand years ago, people understood those things now known as "science."

Ulyanov wrote: I'm not sure what you mean exactly by the part I put in bold, but besides, the bible is quite wrong, as proven by science about a number of things. There is far more evidence to support evolution than creation, for instance. Further, there is no reason to believe the bible is true, it's just a book, no superior to any other religious text.

I love those examples.

Far more evidence for evolution, I agree. Like all the points you posted in the actual evolution topic right?

And what is science? Just a bunch of books.

"No, its a way to understand the world."

So is God. Among other more important things.

Bob Frankenberry · Sat May 12, 2007 4:50 pm

Funny how someone took the idea that "the Earth hangs on nothing" and made this website.

Evidence from them:
Pslams 93:1 wrote:
The world also is established that it cannot be moved.

And your line:
Job 26:7 wrote:
God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing

They also provide this image:

and provide these words:
the website wrote:
Levitating Globe

"An electromagnet and computerized sensor hidden in its

display stand cause the Earth to levitate motionlessly in the air."

Could God have engineered something like that for the real Earth?

The Bible and all real evidence confirms that this is precisely what He did, and indeed:

The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.

The universe is not one ten trillionth the size we are told.

Today’s cosmology fulfills an anti-Bible religious plan disguised as "science".

The whole scheme from Copernicanism to Big Bangism is a factless lie.

Those lies have planted the Truth-killing virus of evolutionism

in every aspect of man’s "knowledge" about the Universe, the

Earth, and Himself.

For the record, I mean no disrespect to either of you, but I'm simply pointing out that what one person sees is not always what another person sees.

You see this as "the Earth, in space, doing what it does."

This person doesn't seem to see that.

(-S-) · Sat May 12, 2007 5:05 pm

Quote: The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.

:roll:

Bob Frankenberry · Sat May 12, 2007 5:06 pm

(-S-) wrote: Quote: The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.

:roll:

Y'know, the old geo-centric idea. I assume the person believes that the Earth is at the center of all things, while the planets, moon, and sun, go around it. And the stars are all part of some sphere that surrounds the orbits.

I can't get past the first page of the website, as I refuse to take anyone seriously who can't bother to make a decent website.

Citizen187 · Sat May 12, 2007 5:29 pm Re: U

Roy's Our Boy wrote: "Science > God because I said so.
Even if that was all he did, does the Bible do any better than "because I said so"?

Bob Frankenberry · Sat May 12, 2007 5:31 pm Re: U

Citizen187 wrote: Roy's Our Boy wrote: "Science > God because I said so.
Even if that was all he did, does the Bible do any better than "because I said so"?

Considering a Christian believes God to be the ultimate authority in all things, it would safe to say that "[God] saying so" is perfect justification.

Or so it seems.

LeilaniSurferGirl · Sun May 13, 2007 6:01 pm

Quote: If there are any quotes in the bible about atoms, I'd like to see them.
I'm sorry, I said that the wrong way. You know that atoms are invisible, correct? What I meant was that the Bible talks about the fact that the earth is held up by invisible things, aka atoms. Is that more clear? Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quote: It's not really "hung on nothing" though, that idea would more support geocentricism, but really the earth is "hung" on the sun.

How is the earth hung on the sun?

Quote: He doesn't cause evaporation, it's a process explained by science.

But who created the process of evaporation? I don't think that the Big Bang could explain that... I'm not sure if I quoted my friend Caroline or not, but here is something great that she had to say about the Big Bang.

Quote: Science proved many years ago that Something CANNOT come from nothing. The Spontaneous Generation is ridiculous. The man that thought that maggots suddenly "sprang" from meat left out and came from "nothing" was clearly disproved when microscopes were invented and they could see the eggs, and they did experiments proving that when the meat was sealed, that didn't happen.

THEREFORE...the Big Bang is SCIENTIFICALLY disproved, because it is common sense that there was NOTHING there before the Universe was (not even an Electron) and suddenly BANG!

Quote: He certainly is not, the earth just rotates.

Yes, but who thought about making the earth rotate? Who put the sun at just the right distance, so we would freeze or burn to death? Evolution most certainly does not have that chance, and the Big Bang, as Caroline pointed out, is scientifically disproven.

Quote: By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen. (Hebrews 11:3, NLT)

"God is so great-higher than the heavens, higher than the farthest stars. (Job 22:12, NLT)

The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. (Ecclesiastes 1:6, KJV)

And the Lord God formed a man's body from the dust of the ground and breathed into it the breath of life. And the man became a living person. (Genesis 2:7, NLT)

For he understands how weak we are; he knows we are only dust. (Psalm 103:14, NLT).

I do not see how this is scientific.

It is scientifically accurate. It should point out that God created science! All this was in the Bible years and years and years before man ever discovered it!

Quote: I'm not sure what you mean exactly by the part I put in bold, but besides, the bible is quite wrong, as proven by science about a number of things. There is far more evidence to support evolution than creation, for instance. Further, there is no reason to believe the bible is true, it's just a book, no superior to any other religious text.

And welcome to the forum, btw.
I didn't mean to put it in bold, sorry about that. My mistake.

How is the Bible wrong? And could you please tell me the things that science has proven worng? And how is there more evidence to support evolution?

Oh, thanks for the welcome! :D I appreciate it.

If there's anything I missed from your post, please tell me.

Now the next post... man, this is gonna be looooooong. lol.

Quote: Then the rest of what you say is "Science > God because I said so. If science explains these things then God does not exist."

I'm not sure I get what you mean... were you saying I said that?

Quote: Even if that was all he did, does the Bible do any better than "because I said so"?

I know that you already know that you have a choice to believe in Him. He never said, "You have to believe in me because I said so." He gives you that choice. He loves you deeply and passionately, and wants you to know that. He created this world for our enjoyment. He created it for us to see such a loving God. A God that was willing to sacrifice His only Son to die a criminal's death. He even turned His back on Jesus. He loved His Son enough to have him excruciatingly tortured to pay for my disbelief and my sin. And not only mine, but yours to. Jesus's whole point in the Gospel is you have to admit your a sinner, believe that He came to save you, and confess your sin! But the greatest part of all is Christ's resurrection. All other religion's greatest leaders are dead, but Jesus is risen! He isn't in some musty tomb, He is alive!

But back to your point. No, it is not a 'because I said so.' Jesus never said that. He gave you a choice. He never told Adam and Eve, "You can't eat from that tree because I said so." He did it for their good. Their betterment. And they chose their own way, did they not?

If I have missed anything, I apologize.

-Addie

Ulyanov · Sun May 13, 2007 9:25 pm

LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: Quote: If there are any quotes in the bible about atoms, I'd like to see them.
I'm sorry, I said that the wrong way. You know that atoms are invisible, correct? What I meant was that the Bible talks about the fact that the earth is held up by invisible things, aka atoms. Is that more clear? Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The Bible might be accurate in saying that matter is made up of things in visible to the naked eye, yes, but I don't see how that proves anything about it.

Quote: Quote: It's not really "hung on nothing" though, that idea would more support geocentricism, but really the earth is "hung" on the sun.

How is the earth hung on the sun?
It depends on how you interpret it, as does basically anything. If you're broad about it, then of course it's hung on nothing, there's nothing it would be literally hung on, that doesn't show scientific facts in the Bible. It is kept in place, figuratively hung, by the Sun's gravitational field.

Quote: Quote: He doesn't cause evaporation, it's a process explained by science.

But who created the process of evaporation? I don't think that the Big Bang could explain that... I'm not sure if I quoted my friend Caroline or not, but here is something great that she had to say about the Big Bang.

Quote: Science proved many years ago that Something CANNOT come from nothing. The Spontaneous Generation is ridiculous. The man that thought that maggots suddenly "sprang" from meat left out and came from "nothing" was clearly disproved when microscopes were invented and they could see the eggs, and they did experiments proving that when the meat was sealed, that didn't happen.

THEREFORE...the Big Bang is SCIENTIFICALLY disproved, because it is common sense that there was NOTHING there before the Universe was (not even an Electron) and suddenly BANG!
This is why I'm a deist.

Quote: Quote: He certainly is not, the earth just rotates.

Yes, but who thought about making the earth rotate? Who put the sun at just the right distance, so we would freeze or burn to death? Evolution most certainly does not have that chance, and the Big Bang, as Caroline pointed out, is scientifically disproven.
Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with why the Earth rotates. No one put it the right distance away, we just got lucky. There are countless planets in the solar system, it is not impossible that some of them would be the right distance from their sun.

Quote: It is scientifically accurate. It should point out that God created science! All this was in the Bible years and years and years before man ever discovered it!
So it's age makes it more scientifically accurate? The Bible is not the oldest text in the world, nor is it today an accurate replication of the original.

Quote: I didn't mean to put it in bold, sorry about that. My mistake.
You didn't put it in bold, I did just to point it out.

Quote: How is the Bible wrong? And could you please tell me the things that science has proven worng? And how is there more evidence to support evolution?
How can there not be more evidence, there is no evidence to support the Bible apart from the Bible itself.

Quote: Quote: Then the rest of what you say is "Science > God because I said so. If science explains these things then God does not exist."

I'm not sure I get what you mean... were you saying I said that?
No, he's saying I said that.

Quote: I know that you already know that you have a choice to believe in Him. He never said, "You have to believe in me because I said so." He gives you that choice. He loves you deeply and passionately, and wants you to know that. He created this world for our enjoyment. He created it for us to see such a loving God. A God that was willing to sacrifice His only Son to die a criminal's death. He even turned His back on Jesus. He loved His Son enough to have him excruciatingly tortured to pay for my disbelief and my sin. And not only mine, but yours to. Jesus's whole point in the Gospel is you have to admit your a sinner, believe that He came to save you, and confess your sin! But the greatest part of all is Christ's resurrection. All other religion's greatest leaders are dead, but Jesus is risen! He isn't in some musty tomb, He is alive!

But back to your point. No, it is not a 'because I said so.' Jesus never said that. He gave you a choice. He never told Adam and Eve, "You can't eat from that tree because I said so." He did it for their good. Their betterment. And they chose their own way, did they not?
They might have, but there's no evidence of any of the above apart from the Bible.

Bob Frankenberry · Sun May 13, 2007 9:25 pm

LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: Quote: If there are any quotes in the bible about atoms, I'd like to see them.
I'm sorry, I said that the wrong way. You know that atoms are invisible, correct? What I meant was that the Bible talks about the fact that the earth is held up by invisible things, aka atoms. Is that more clear? Sorry for the misunderstanding.

How can you be so sure that they mean atoms?

Quote: Quote: It's not really "hung on nothing" though, that idea would more support geocentricism, but really the earth is "hung" on the sun.

How is the earth hung on the sun?

Gravity

Quote: Quote: He doesn't cause evaporation, it's a process explained by science.

But who created the process of evaporation? I don't think that the Big Bang could explain that... I'm not sure if I quoted my friend Caroline or not, but here is something great that she had to say about the Big Bang.

Quote: Science proved many years ago that Something CANNOT come from nothing. The Spontaneous Generation is ridiculous. The man that thought that maggots suddenly "sprang" from meat left out and came from "nothing" was clearly disproved when microscopes were invented and they could see the eggs, and they did experiments proving that when the meat was sealed, that didn't happen.

THEREFORE...the Big Bang is SCIENTIFICALLY disproved, because it is common sense that there was NOTHING there before the Universe was (not even an Electron) and suddenly BANG!

Well, really, unless your friend is a scientist, they can't scientifically disprove anything. Of course, it's entirely possible that they are, but you did not mention that before quoting them.

And why does it have to be a person that created all this?

Quote: Quote: He certainly is not, the earth just rotates.

Yes, but who thought about making the earth rotate? Who put the sun at just the right distance, so we would freeze or burn to death? Evolution most certainly does not have that chance, and the Big Bang, as Caroline pointed out, is scientifically disproven.

Again, why does someone have to have thought about this? Could have no just happened through a stroke of probability?

Evolution doesn't have anything to do with how the planets developed into the locations that they did, that's astronomy and such.

I'm not going to touch on the religious part, because it's not my area, nor is this, but I feel that little snippets like these help make the conversations more interesting.

Houndstooth · Sun May 13, 2007 9:57 pm

Quote: How can there not be more evidence, there is no evidence to support the Bible apart from the Bible itself. That is completely false. I'm surprised people still believe that.

If you mean the parts concerning faith, that's one thing; but the parts concerning history and/or world events at the time? There are many congruencies between the Biblical account and archeological findings. Quote: Considering a Christian believes God to be the ultimate authority in all things, it would safe to say that "[God] saying so" is perfect justification. You might get to a point where that becomes valid, and yes, theoretically it should be, but many Christians (those now and those in the Bible) show skepticism even at the word of God. Moses thought God was wrong about choosing him even when speaking to the burning bush. Etc, etc. Only through faith can a man please God (James maybe?) but overcoming doubts is part of the Christian life. Doubt is common, but the choice to fight through it is the pleasing to God part.

But yes, God is the ultimate authority on what is ultimate objective truth. Quote: There is far more evidence to support evolution than creation, for instance. Like what? Where? Show me, please. If evolution is the truth, or even a better guess, I'd like to know now so I can stop living this life and make more applicable use of my time. Quote: He doesn't cause evaporation, it's a process explained by science. Some parts of the Bible are figurative, others literal. You could interpret this like Addie - God created the processes of science. Or you could interpret this figuratively - God, the creator of all things, works all things because he created them. This leads back to God as being the source of everything. One is more direct, but both are legitimate. Quote: the bible is quite wrong, as proven by science about a number of things Once again, where, what?

Bob Frankenberry · Sun May 13, 2007 10:31 pm

Houndstooth wrote:
Quote: Considering a Christian believes God to be the ultimate authority in all things, it would safe to say that "[God] saying so" is perfect justification.
You might get to a point where that becomes valid, and yes, theoretically it should be, but many Christians (those now and those in the Bible) show skepticism even at the word of God. Moses thought God was wrong about choosing him even when speaking to the burning bush. Etc, etc. Only through faith can a man please God (James maybe?) but overcoming doubts is part of the Christian life. Doubt is common, but the choice to fight through it is the pleasing to God part.

But yes, God is the ultimate authority on what is ultimate objective truth.

Sweet, I got one right!

Quote: Quote: He doesn't cause evaporation, it's a process explained by science.
Some parts of the Bible are figurative, others literal. You could interpret this like Addie - God created the processes of science. Or you could interpret this figuratively - God, the creator of all things, works all things because he created them. This leads back to God as being the source of everything. One is more direct, but both are legitimate.

That's fair. But how do you determine what is literal and what is figurative? I mean, from what I've gathered [from shows about the Bible on The History Channel and History International, as well as little bits here and there I've read] the book of Revelations is a metaphor, is figurative.

To me, it makes more sense to be figurative. But that also leaves the idea that the majority of the book could just be metaphor and figurative language.

If God exists, then, yes, He is the source of these things. But how active is He in the acting of these things? Obviously God does not ride a mystical chariot across the sky to raise and lower the sun.

But did He actively create the aspects of the water cycle? Did He really sit down and say:

"When hydrogen dioxide molecules reach a certain temperature--say, 212 degrees on what will eventually become the Fahrenheit scale or 100 degress on this 'Celsius' scale-- I will have the molecules move at a rate so fast that they escape from the bonds holding them with other molecules, sending them into the air. And when they reach a certain height into the sky, perhaps the stratosphere at most, I will have them--what's a good word? Condense-- condense into big collections of water, where they will circle the Earth until such a time when they are disrupted. Once disrupted the molecules will group together and fall back down to the Earth.

"And cold! Let's not forget cold! If they reach a certain temperature, say 0 C or 32 F, I will have the structure of the groups of molecules turn into a crystal!"

I mean, that's a lot of work. Could He had simply just created the environment for it, and it happened of its own accord?

Ulyanov · Mon May 14, 2007 9:14 pm

Houndstooth wrote: Quote: How can there not be more evidence, there is no evidence to support the Bible apart from the Bible itself. That is completely false. I'm surprised people still believe that.

If you mean the parts concerning faith, that's one thing; but the parts concerning history and/or world events at the time? There are many congruencies between the Biblical account and archeological findings.
Faith is what we're talking about, I'm sure there a lots of things that are historically true talked about in the Bible.

Quote: Quote: There is far more evidence to support evolution than creation, for instance. Like what? Where? Show me, please. If evolution is the truth, or even a better guess, I'd like to know now so I can stop living this life and make more applicable use of my time.
We have seen examples of evolution (i.e. moths in manchester during the industrial revolution, galapagos), but I have never heard of any recorded instance in which someone witnessed creation of a species or being by a higher power.

Quote: Quote: He doesn't cause evaporation, it's a process explained by science. Some parts of the Bible are figurative, others literal. You could interpret this like Addie - God created the processes of science.
You could, but there is no reason I am aware of to believe this.

Quote: Quote: the bible is quite wrong, as proven by science about a number of things Once again, where, what?
If we disregard creation and assume evolution is wrong,
Isaiah 30:26, this is from wikisource since I have no Bible, correct it if it's wrong wrote: Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
The light of the moon is not as the light of the sun, it is the reflected light of the sun, the moon has no light.

LeilaniSurferGirl · Thu May 17, 2007 11:50 pm

Sorry for being gone for so long. I often don't have time to do much else with my own website.

Anyway, Ulyanov, I'm just going to talk about your last point right now.

God has the power to do anything.

Several months ago, I needed money to pay for something, and I prayed. The very next day, one of my mothers friends called and asked I would clean for her. I earned $32 in two days.

Once again, I found myself needing money, and I prayed. Wednesday night, at my youth group, we had a money machine. My name was called, and I got $46.

I would not call this a coincidence. I would call this God answering His child. Scripture says somewhere that if one of God's children is in need, He will provide. I truly believe that God has huge plans for my life. Huge. I can clearly see His hand over my life. I can see His hand when I was younger, and didn't care. I see Him in so many things. I'm going to be open with you, as I know this is true.

One night, I was laying in bed, drifting off to sleep. I've had a bit of a rough past (nothing extremely serious) and with being a teen girl, I have pretty severe mood swings. I was just fine, and all of a sudden, I had this acute pain that pierced my heart, and I cried out. Then I just started weeping. I rolled onto my back with my eyes open. I closed my eyes, and breathed in, and I heard clearly a voice that said, "I'm here my child." The awesome thing is, I had been reading a book in the Mitfod Series, and the Episcopal rector had been given four words to preach on: In everything give thanks. Those are my four words. I'm here my child. And as soon as He said that, the pain immediately stopped. I immediately calmed down, and I immediately felt at peace.

I remember another time where I was also upset, and I had this almost fuzzy feeling, and then I just truly felt peaceful. At rest with who I am. Who I will be. What God has in store for me.

There are so many ways I can see God in my life, and if I wrote it all down, it'd take me hours. Maybe I can just start doing two a day. But if you any questions, please ask me.

-Addie

*Edit* I was listening to Collide by Skillet while typing this, and I wanted to post some of the lyrics.

There's something deep inside
That keeps my faith alive
When all you can do
Is hide from the fear
That's deep inside of you
Something, something, something
Something, something, something
To hold me close when I don't know
There's something deep inside
That keeps my faith alive

I was also listening to Your Touch by Kutless, and I thought that this also had a lot to do with my first example.

Not knowing why I ever retreated from your arms
A mistake I made
Now oh Lord I feel your warm embrace, contentment
fills my soul as joy lights my face.

Plus there's also the fact that the Lord will wake my mother up when she's sleeping by saying her name, and then (she writes songs and poems) He gives her words to write. It's... it's just amazing. You would have to read her songs. It's just amazing the way she can write. It's definitely not something I could give her credit for. Maybe, just maybe she'll let me post some of them.

Adios for today,
Addie

Bob Frankenberry · Fri May 18, 2007 12:00 am

LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: I would not call this a coincidence. I would call this God answering His child. Scripture says somewhere that if one of God's children is in need, He will provide. I truly believe that God has huge plans for my life. Huge. I can clearly see His hand over my life. I can see His hand when I was younger, and didn't care. I see Him in so many things. I'm going to be open with you, as I know this is true.

One time, my aunt and uncle, two very devout and religious individuals were wanting to adopt three children. Young children. They prayed upon it for days, and weeks. They even joined prayer groups, and had dreams where they were with these children.

They didn't get the children.

LeilaniSurferGirl · Fri May 18, 2007 12:04 am

Again, why does someone have to have thought about this? Could have no just happened through a stroke of probability?

Well, I decided against the last post being my last.

You want to call your brain having more memory than a computer a stroke of probability? You want to call the ability for us to taste food a stroke of probability? You want to call a magnificent sunset a stroke of probability? You want to call Albert Einsten's mind a stroke of probability?

What about evolution? Do you HONESTLY think that Albert Einsten became that smart by evolving from a monkey or a tapeworm?????

I'm sorry. My blood pressure is rising. But, can you honestly tell me that you believe this world started with a BANG! and we have all the lovely things we have? We have the ability to do the things we can do? Oh no. Someone had to think of it! Who would have thought to camoflauge the female cardinal to protect her babies, while brightly coloring her husband to protect her? Not probability, as I've studied it this past year, and I can guarantee, it's not evolution. That just doesn't happen.

Let me attach a few pics I've taken, and honestly tell me you think the Big Bang is true.

The last one I didn't take, but I'm an artist, and I found this on the computer the other day, and just thought it marvelous!

Can you honestly tell me that probability made this beauty?

LeilaniSurferGirl · Fri May 18, 2007 12:07 am

Bob Frankenberry wrote: LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: I would not call this a coincidence. I would call this God answering His child. Scripture says somewhere that if one of God's children is in need, He will provide. I truly believe that God has huge plans for my life. Huge. I can clearly see His hand over my life. I can see His hand when I was younger, and didn't care. I see Him in so many things. I'm going to be open with you, as I know this is true.

One time, my aunt and uncle, two very devout and religious individuals were wanting to adopt three children. Young children. They prayed upon it for days, and weeks. They even joined prayer groups, and had dreams where they were with these children.

They didn't get the children.

It is not always God's will. Amy Carmichael wanted blue eyes. If she had gotten her prayer answered, the Indians she was a missionary too would have doubted her disguise as an Indian while rescuing girls that were forced to prostitute themselves to gods.

I am very sorry. But sometimes, the things we want are not God's will for us. And sometimes, like Balaam, if we insist on something, He'll give it to us, but we'll miss the best that God could have given us.

Bob Frankenberry · Fri May 18, 2007 12:24 am

LeilaniSurferGirl wrote: Again, why does someone have to have thought about this? Could have no just happened through a stroke of probability?

Well, I decided against the last post being my last.

You want to call your brain having more memory than a computer a stroke of probability? You want to call the ability for us to taste food a stroke of probability? You want to call a magnificent sunset a stroke of probability? You want to call Albert Einsten's mind a stroke of probability?

I'm calling it that right now.

And, in a way, I believe each of these statements can be explained as the results of previous actions.

Quote: What about evolution? Do you HONESTLY think that Albert Einsten became that smart by evolving from a monkey or a tapeworm?????

What about evolution? I don't see the correlation.

I think he "became that smart" by educating himself in his preferred field of study.

Quote: I'm sorry. My blood pressure is rising. But, can you honestly tell me that you believe this world started with a BANG! and we have all the lovely things we have? We have the ability to do the things we can do? Oh no. Someone had to think of it! Who would have thought to camoflauge the female cardinal to protect her babies, while brightly coloring her husband to protect her? Not probability, as I've studied it this past year, and I can guarantee, it's not evolution. That just doesn't happen.

I don't know how the universe began, it's not a field I'm interested in.

And, actually, that thing you're talking about is one of the ideas behind natural selection. The female cardinal, in its habitat, eventually developed a natural camouflage to protect its young against predators.

Quote: Let me attach a few pics I've taken, and honestly tell me you think the Big Bang is true.

[images removed for the sake of loading]

The last one I didn't take, but I'm an artist, and I found this on the computer the other day, and just thought it marvelous!

Can you honestly tell me that probability made this beauty?

I, again, don't see the correlation you're attempting to make. Furthermore, I can look at this:

just as I look at those, and appreciate them for what they are. But I do not believe that they had to be caused by God.

SummerHuntingtown07 · Fri May 18, 2007 1:41 am

For as smart as Einstein was, he could not have been that smart just from working in his study, Bob. I'm agreeing with everything Addie has said.